tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848073453811666225.post558001596121492384..comments2024-03-08T04:27:48.022-05:00Comments on A Most Beguiling Accomplishment: The Nightgown (and the Negligee) (HSM #3)Cassidyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03596345781746342408noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848073453811666225.post-31897500488155807712015-03-05T21:43:23.681-05:002015-03-05T21:43:23.681-05:00You're right, I didn't really address the ...You're right, I didn't really address the trim possibility in the gown vs. sack/negligee price comparison - I only brought it up in looking at negligees vs. sacks. That could be the big price difference between those non-silk sacks and the nice ones. I had dismissed it because the nightgowns could potentially be trimmed (although those of this period don't tend to be trimmed as frequently as extant sacks) and because of the polonese reference - because polonaises appear to have been trimmed to such a lesser degree compared to sacks. And there seems to me to be too little variation between the prices of gowns and of sacks in my limited pricing sample, when extants and portraits show varying amounts of trim, for me to go with trimming being the reason ... but it's a very small sample. (I have no access to any of the subscription-only newspaper archives online, and the NYPL has totally changed their website, not that I ever understood the search function in their newspaper database anyway.) I'd love to revisit this in the future when I have more prices and descriptions to compare! I hate leaving posts with "well, I speculate that this is why, but I can't really say ..." which is sadly the lot of the researcher dependent on public access databases.Cassidyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03596345781746342408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848073453811666225.post-4744696238696411792015-03-05T19:25:18.490-05:002015-03-05T19:25:18.490-05:00I definitely imagine them laughing at us not getti...I definitely imagine them laughing at us not getting it! Especially with something like "negligee", which I hadn't noticed until I hit the nightgown-vs-negligee quote but then found so many uses of. That must have been pretty firmly in the lexicon<br /><br />I like my phrase "high end casual" too (ha!), but at the same time I always hesitate when I use "casual" in talking about historical dress, because it has such a strong meaning of comfort and looseness and stretch today, don't you think? Where there were women who might only wear silk gowns/jackets, and would define casual clothes in a very different way. Bah, it's very hard to adapt the modern tongue to historical mindsets.Cassidyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03596345781746342408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848073453811666225.post-87075169599114741472015-03-05T17:32:42.798-05:002015-03-05T17:32:42.798-05:00Hey Cassidy,
I don't really want to get into...Hey Cassidy, <br /><br />I don't really want to get into a in depth discussion on here about some of your points you've made here (some of which are interesting and gain further thought). I just really feel the need to point out one major factor in pricing that you did not mention (not that you didn't think of it, at least in an abstract sense, but I can't find it specifically referenced.). The reason sacks, polonaises, or any other gown is priced higher, is not necessarily related to its fashionability, but the amount of trim that goes on that sucker (though the more trim = the more fashion...hopefully...unless she has terrible taste). Trim takes forever. FOR-EVER. Seriously. Any base gown can take us between 9-12 hours to make, but the trim is what turns the gown into a 10 hour project to 20, 80, 120. When you compare the books you've used against newspaper adverts it makes it more clear. A lot of mantua makers will have the garment and their cost set, and will usually clarify the amount of trim in the cost (untrimmed, trimmed, full trim) and the prices go up in their advertisements.<br /><br />Just something to keep in mind. :)<br /><br />Abbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03028430053626470673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848073453811666225.post-38945681172323319292015-03-04T13:14:23.197-05:002015-03-04T13:14:23.197-05:00I sometimes imagine the ladies of the past laughin...I sometimes imagine the ladies of the past laughing at us moderns a little as we muddle to understand and categorize their clothing and terminology--not only because we don't "get it" but because I imagine them thinking "who cares what we call it, it's pretty!" or the like. But we do care--and getting into the nuts and bolts can help reveal more about how they wore and understood their clothing within the larger cultural sphere. Here, I think you're spot-on in seeing "high end casual" in these clothes. It reminds me, a bit, of the concept of "boudoir"--the place between public and private. Perhaps these gowns are in some ways a part of the place between as well--not quite casual, but not quite formal presentation, either.Rowennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09757364614589686606noreply@blogger.com